Lauren Crom Comparison Post 4

Hiren, I really thought that you did a fantastic job assessing the two books in your last post.

I would like to comment about an earlier conversation.  I believe that I had it a man, and this particular conversation was about A Separate Peace.  He said that he has known men who attended private universities... with no women.  These men turned out to be super competitive towards other men because that is their nature.  Reseraching further into this meaning, Stanford was not an all-male school.  I guess it will remain to stump me as to why nothing in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest... not even the view on women was positive.  That is still disturbing, and I think you are correct in assuming that this book could inspire negative behavior.

As to the title of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I believe a little differently than you.  I think that it represents more of McMurphy than the Chief Bromden, simply because he seemed to be the focus of the story.  Yes, Chief Bromden surprised us all when he talked.  Yes, he surprised us all when he showed the world that he understood their view as much as anyone who had been previously and actively engaged.  But that wasn't the point of the story.  I feel as though the plot was to show how corrupt this society was--it's a Catch-22 of its own sort.  The people who are sane are labeled the chronics, while the chronically insane are free to move about the country (aviation connection of the day!)  Directing this post on a more serious note, I think that the "one" in the title represents McMurphy.  He was the one person who saved and freed and destroyed and imagined (think back to how the crazy author imagined things) this "cuckoo's nest."  He was the one that literally flew--approached, went over, then left--the cuckoo's nest.

As for A Separate Peace, I believe this novel was given this title because... well I am torn between several reasons.  I believe that the relationship between Gene and Phineas was separate from the rest of the world, no matter how anyone tries to connect it.  Separate in the way that no one else understood their relationship, especially how Finny played sports through Gene.  They lived in a separate world, similar to how it is believed that tunnels in space are connected via incomprehensible tunnels in the fabric of space-time.  Or, the title could be quite simple.  The book begins with Gene venturing to his home town and visiting this school where he killed his friend, his enemy, and his idol.  He wants Finny to continue to rest in peace.  He wants Finny to be alone because he knew how eventually people might "crack" him.  Needless to say, "separate" is the most tell-tale word in this title.  It can be implied as stark, friendly, or peaceful.  It is up to the reader to imply which one works best for them.

Again, thanks for being such a thorough partner for this project!  I enjoyed the "word-count challenge!" I also appreciated the variety by which we chose our books.  And if you choose to attend Stanford University, please don't become a writer.

Hiren Ajudia Post 4 Comparison

Lauren, I really liked how you noticed that women were not as influential in both of these books as you may have wanted them to be. I think that a partial reason for this might have been the lack of women right’s awareness during the past times when these books were written. For example, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was written in 1950s. During this time period, the women of the house were not in working positions because of the effects of the war, and in turn, women in this time period were house wives. I don’t particularly know about the author’s relationships with women, but it may be possible that their relationships had a profound effect on how women are portrayed in the books—considering how Ken Kesey’s experience with drugs had a major influence on the story. Also, I think that the quote that you had found was an excellent overview of both books. However, I think that the quote “I felt better. Yes, I sensed it like the sweat of relief when nausea passes away; I felt better. We were even after all, even in enmity. The deadly rivalry was on both sides after all” (page 43). I think that this quote summarized the relationship  between both Finny and Gene, McMurphy and the Head Nurse, and also the correspondence between both sets of characters. In both cases, the theme of competition and rivalry was clearly evident. In the first book, both of the characters facing each other had gone against each other without trying to understand their reasoning for their feelings. In the second book, Gene convinced himself that his “enemy” had the same types of feelings towards him as he had for Finny. One thing about in particular that could have changed this feeling in the first book was if the Head Nurse took the time to understand her patients. I know that I suggested this idea earlier in our posts, but I think that the mental ward could have avoided the waged enmity if the Head Nurse was willing to understand the conditions of her patients. I feel that this quote has a connection to the real world as well. In a way, it tells people that making assumptions about their relationships with others can change them for the worse. I think that the importance of this quote is to motivate people to inquire about their current status in any type of relationship. In this specific example, Gene had believed that Finny hated him and that gave justification for his negative behavior and hostile thoughts.

One thing that I would like to mention about both books is the difference in the tone of the stories. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, I felt that the narrator was telling the story from a more sympathetic level. He clearly feels bad for the way the patients are treated in the ward, and he makes that clear in the way he describes the wards daily torturous routines. In the other book however, I feel that the book was told in a more reflective way.  I say this because the book begins with the present version of Gene and how his depressing thoughts from fifteen years ago brought him back to the prestigious school. Personally, I think that the tones of the books would have been perfect for the opposite book. This means, that I think that even though the first book was told in a sympathetic way, it deserved to be told in a reflective way. If it was told in a reflective way, it would have served as a way to tell readers how to avoid situations if they could. For example, if it was told using this tone, the author would have been able to analyze whether or not Bromden had acted correctly to hide his hearing abilities from the ward. Also, A Separate Peace deserved to be from a sympathetic tone because the characters in the story had to go through the results of hatred. Although the theme was also a part of the first book, I think that it was not as strong because it did not result in death for a character like it did in our second reading. Also, the second story would have touched the hearts of many who had experienced a mistake in their past friendships if it was told in a way that made the audience feel sorry for the characters.

I wanted to also end my post with my commentary on the book’s titles. I already mentioned how I saw the title of the second book, and that was that “nothing was as peaceful as the summer of a few carless youths.” For the first book, the title really stands out to me. For one, it is based on a children’s rhyme. This reminded me also of the origin of the book The Catcher in the Rye. This is because this book’s title also comes from a child’s song. I think that the title of the first book comes from the end portion where the chief left the mental ward. In a way, I feel like he was able to go over the influence of the ward. I feel that the importance of the “cuckoo’s nest” relates to the mental ward and also how children call each other “cuckoo” when they mean to say that others are crazy. In a way, I feel that this title came from the fact that Bromden did not feel that the mental ward was his home just as a cuckoo bird would find its nest as its home. I hope my thought description makes sense. Do you agree with this reasoning? Why else could these books have been titled this way?

Lauren, I would like to conclude my post by thanking you for being my debate partner. I really appreciate the time you took to help guide my thought process and also to clear up any misunderstandings I had about the book. Thanks!

Lauren Crom Post 3 Comparison

"I been silent so long now it’s gonna roar out of me like floodwaters and you think the guy telling this is ranting and raving my God; you think this is too horrible to have really happened, this is too awful to be the truth! But, please. It’s still hard for me to have a clear mind thinking on it. But it’s the truth even if it didn’t happen" (Kesey).  This quote is actually from the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, however it pertains to both A Separate Peace and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.  Hiren, I'm sure that you would understand this analogy.  This is what Chief Bromden states immediately after proving to the mental hospital that he indeed has a voice, which disproves  his life-long reputation of being both a deaf and mute human being.  This is such a significant point in such a terrible story because when people are around Chief Bromden they believe that he can't hear what they are discussing.  Thus the most vital and secretive conversations in the story center around the Chief and the concept that he can't hear them.  This is where the "Sex Candy" part came from, because two of the characters were bragging about their past sex life (as you commented in your previous post).  

The idea of "sex candy" also ties into the ideology that women are bad and negative figures in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.  Associating "sex" with "candy" by mentally insane is disturbing and another reason why I despised how Kenneth Kesey wrote his novel.  Wait... does this book even deserve to be called a novel?  The short answer: NO.  Why? you might ask.  The word "novel" originates from the Latin word "nov" which directly translates into modern English as "new."  Because "novelty" has the prefix of "nov" and is a word of high regard and is often categorized with the word "novel," One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest should not be considered a novel.  This "book" is more like a junkyard of words bound by a tragic attempt of a binding, where inside lie rotting and defiling pages.  Between the two books, not one women (other than that of a prostitute in Kenneth Kesey's book) is portrayed in a positive light.  This could be due to several reasons:  because the authors of these books seemed to pull their experiences (or what they experienced under the influence of illegal substances) they probably did not have a positive history with women.  

What do you think about this, Hiren?  If neither Kenneth Kesey nor Jon Knowles associate women with positive adjectives, then do you believe that this could be due to either lack of female support in their early lives or simply lack of respect for women?  

Hiren, you referred to the reaction of certain characters.  I believe that the character who acted appropriately to countless situations--although I hate to admit because he starred in the book that I despise--was McMurphy.  He was forcefully placed into this hospital when there was no need for him to be there and participate in those discussions.  He moved on and accepted this fact that he was considered a "chronic" and there was no way for him to escape.  Contrary to McMurphys' spirit and intuition that keep him going even when life handed him oranges and told him to make lemonade was Finny.  Finny didn't want to accept that he was hurt, that he could no longer hope for a career in the military.  He could no longer compete or--if Gene were writing this post--"beat" Gene, but rather stand (or sit) on the sidelines and pretend like he didn't care.  Reality is, he cared.  He cared so deeply that the photons of his care couldn't reach the outside of his skin in time to show his appreciation/disappreciation for that particular situation.  

I believe that life is 20% what happens to you and 80% of how you react to what life throws at you.  Because people are given so much leniency (or not) given their situation, I think that Finny should have stepped up.  Gene should have as well.  But McMurphy drove farther than the tsunami was going to hit, fully aware that it could land higher than anyone predicted.  He was an intuitive character--he knew how to cheat the system.  Not smart, but intuitive.  

Hiren, I can't wait to hear what you say in your final post!!!

Hiren Ajudia Post 3 Comparison

Lauren, I really liked how you connected the lives of the authors of both books to the actual story that they had written. I was quite surprised to learn how similar the lives of the authors were in comparison to the story line of both books. Although they stumped me, I also liked how you made direct questions to me in your post. Until you mentioned it, I had not considered how the personal experiences of the authors affected the plot. Based on your previous posts, I am sure that you also agree with me that Ken Kesey’s decision to partake in a drug study was rather unique. Just like I guessed, that experience motivated him to write his novel One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. It makes me laugh how much you despise this book, especially when you hinted that this book was not as “fantastic” as it seems to be. Your last comment really stumped me. I have not read any other of his works, and based on that I would not be able to correctly answer whether or not the drugs that he took pushed him to be a better writer. However, I can infer that the story of the book would have been much more different because he would not have been able to narrate a book from the perspective of a mental ward if he was not able to experience the types of situations that he wrote about. I can also infer that the drug study left a profound mark on his lifestyle because in my reading about him, I came across how he threw parties which were based on drug effects, and he was also arrested for the possession of marijuana.  After reading his biography, the respect that I had for him both decreased and it also increased. I think that I began to respect him more as an author after reading his biography because it proved that he was capable of being motivated by anything. The specific subject that Ken Kesey was motivated by decreased the respect I had for him because he took inspiration from something that society looks down upon—and that is drug usage. I can see how this book has a negative effect on its audience. In a way, it serves as a motivator for readers to try drug usage and I think that the message in the book is completely negative.

In this post however, I really wanted to focus on how the side characters in both books saw and reacted to the events that unfolded before them. I think that in both cases, both the Head  Nurse and Leper are major characters in their appropriate books but they are not given much representation. i can relate why the Head Nurse was so mad at McMurphy for causing chaos in the ward as soon as he arrived. I am sure that I would be really angry if someone came into my work space and quickly began to destroy the systems that I had set up and as a result, he would have also quickly taken the popularity that I worked so hard to build. In fact, if someone did that to me, I would have been crushed. If I were in the place of the Head Nurse, I would have let the ward run according to the way that the patients had wanted rather than trying to get back at my competition for taking away by power over the ward. In a way, I think that the Nurse was right to be strict with those under her control who disobeyed and mocked her power. If she had been a bit more relaxed, the might have been a possibility that events would have turned out differently for the rest of the ward. Although she was unliked for her strict behavior, I feel that the characters in the story did not find the need to find the reason behind her behavior—she might have felt insecure of her head position, or she might have wanted have a strict behavior with the patients so that she could work one step closer to their cure.

I think that the Head Nurse and Leper do not have a lot in common because the head nurse was more of the controlling type of people while I thought that Leper was more of the background person in the second book. His experience had a great effect one the story line of A Separate Peace just as the Head Nurse effected the story in the first book. However, the nurse’s actions were the result of her direct involvement while Leper’s actions were more indirect. Because he was one of the first who enlisted in the war, the other boys who wanted to enlist also had someone to look up to.  His reactions to the enlisting forced the other boys to change their opinion about working in the war.

After reading these two books, I began to feel sorry for the way that Leper was treated. Not just him, but many other soldiers come home after their service with a broken heart—that it if they return home. I feel that his school community was not considerate at all. He just came from a sensitive situation, and he was immediately put into another one with Finny’s hearing. All in all, I think that both of these characters influenced their corresponding stories much more than what we had given them credit for.

Lauren Crom Post 2 Comparison

Ever since I opened A Separate Peace, I wanted to further research the author (John Knowles).  Having posted already about the author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Kenneth Kesey) I want to see how these authors compare; whether they drastically differ or are remarkably similar.

I know that Kenneth Kesey was literally insane.  However, I don't know a thing about what led to the writing of A Separate Peace.  

In John Knowles early life (up to the age of fifteen) he enrolled in a fancy and elite boarding school.  This is most likely where he came up with the inspiration for the Devon School.  This school was considered to be rigorous, and challenging for the author during his stay there.  Because the war is heavily emphasized in A Separate Peace, I decided to research more into where that aspect entered A Separate Peace.  John Knowles grew up around the time that the war was occurring, and thus right after he graduated from his rigorous and elite high school he decided to go join the war efforts.  This was in the place of his college education (for the time being).  I also find it interesting how this is such a major aspect in A Separate Peace, when Gene nonchalantly mentions that he is going to join the war immediately after he leaves his precious Devon School.  This frightens Finny, because for once in Finny's life, he has no control over something.   Thus the value of an education is introduced into the story.  

Though the story of the life of Kenneth Kesey is much more enticing than that of John Knowles, I think they are both fascinating people.  Where the inspiration for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest came from torture and hallucinations, the inspiration for A Separate Peace was all in the authors mind.  He did make up the characters, however pulling some in from his life.  I wonder who inspired Finny??

Hiren, for the next post I really want to hear your opinion on what Kenneth Kesey did at Stanford to earn money.  Was being the subject of these terrible tests moral and ethical?  Do you think he still could have produced such a "fantastic" piece of writing had he not been under the influence of such drugs?

Hiren Ajudia Post 2 Comparison

Lauren, in my first post, I meant to comment on how transparent the character of Gene was portrayed as in A Separate Peace. Although his friendship itself was not that strong, I think that the best thing about the character of Gene was that he was honest with himself. The quote “Only Phineas never was afraid, only Phineas never hated anyone” (page 37) showed that Gene did not want to lie to himself about his relation with Phineas. In our first book, I think that the honesty was lacking between the two main characters. I say this because Bromden had tried to ignore the fact that he was sane and could hear even though McMurphy saw through him. In the second book, Gene does not deny his actions to Finny as Bromden denied being able to hear the outside world by continuing to act as if he was deaf even after McMurphy had met with him regarding his hearing ability.

Contrary to your belief, I do not think that One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was as bad as you described it in your posts. Even though it was not as cheery and interesting as we had anticipated, it is still a good story. When we actually think about it, these ugly events are actually happen in the real world. There are people who are mentally unstable who are sent to such dangerous mental wards. I would also like to give commend the author, Ken Kessy for taking a stab at writing through a different perspective. At times, the book was much more difficult to understand in comparison to our later book, but I think that even through a mental perspective, Kesey was able to effectively deliver the storyline to his audience. One reason that I think that the first book may have been more difficult to understand may have been because of the age differences between the two sets of characters in both books. A Separate Peace may have been easier to understand  because it is told from a teenager’s point of view. Currently, we are both in our teen years, and just like the Gene and Finny, we also have high school drama experiences. For example, we both know how jealous plays out between teenage friends because I assume that some type of experience like that may have also happened to us. The terminology which was used in the first book came from adult men. I know for a fact that I was stumped by the lingo used for describing events in the first book. For example, I had a hard time determining what the author meant when he said “that little hustler would of actually burnt me to a frazzle by the time she reached the legal sixteen” (page 43). McMurphy says this when is telling the other men in the ward about his sex life. The sex interest that the men show in the first book makes it harder for people like us to concentrate to their story because we have different priorities.

This previous example leads me to the difference between two main themes in both books. Sexuality is present in the first book while athletics is very important to the story line of the second book. Sex with Candy at the end of the book, for example gives Billy confidence and power. Also, the patients take a lot of pride in discussing their sexual lives with each other at the mental ward. The importance of sex in the first book proves that the characters are under the wrong influences and it also goes to show how the people in the first book viewed each other. In the end when McMurphy takes the mental ward for an outing with two item girls, he gives the impression that the girls were objects that could be used to appease the other men, and they later could be ignored. In the second book, the theme of commitment to athletics sets characters as rivals. This can be seen when Gene becomes jealous that his friend was good in both academics as well as athletics while Gene was only good in academics.

I hope my post was able to give you a different perspective on One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.

Lauren Crom Post 1 Comparison

Hiren, you hit the nail on the head when you said that the character development of McMurphy and Gene were almost identical.  Throughout both stories, A Separate Peace by John Knowles and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Kenneth Kesey, the main characters are illustrated as innocent and there to serve a good purpose.


The main difference that I found was that McMurphy was introduced as a devious character, where Gene was introduced as an innocent character and a great friend.  Gene and Phineas were said to have a mischievous and typical relationship that teenage boys were supposed to have.  “I was beginning to see that Phineas could get away with anything. I couldn’t help envying him that a little, which was perfectly normal. There was no harm in envying even your best friend a little” (Knowles 18).  Then, as A Separate Peace develops, this friendship becomes rivalry.  “To keep silent about this amazing happening deepened the shock for me. It made Finny seem too unusual for – not friendship, but too unusual for rivalry” (37).  Eventually, Gene Forrester ends up stating this:  “Only Phineas never was afraid, only Phineas never hated anyone....All of them, all except Phineas, constructed at infinite cost to themselves these Maginot Lines against this enemy they thought they saw across the frontier, this enemy who never attacked that way – if ever attacked at all; if he was indeed the enemy” (196).  This is a confession as to why he was so jealous of his deranged friend.  


As for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, I don't really look forward to writing much on this book.  For one, I thought it was the most terrible novel I ever had to read.  I wouldn't even call this book a novel--I would call it a disaster and a mistake of publishing.  If Kenneth Kesey approached me as an editor/editing company, I would have read the first page and denied any publishing rights for this book.  It has damaged the public, making the insane people believe that they can get away with being corrupt for the rest of their life.  No wonder Ken Kesey was at Stanford having LSD and other "hard drugs" tested on him.  No sane person would ever write about this mental hospital in such gruesome depth as he did.  After all, who expects to have a good read when the opening sentence of the book is "They're out there" (Kesey, 1).  Well I have news for you.  Maybe this could have saved the people in the mental hospital from the absolute power of the insane side of the mind:  NO ONE IS OUT THERE.  This book should not even be open for discussion.  

Hiren Ajudia Post 1 Comparison

Lauren, to add onto your comment about Finny’s second incident, I feel that Gene was the one who was blamed because of the past events. I liked the way that you phrased how Gene was innocent in the second incident, but I think that this accusation that Finny put on Gene was not literal. I think that Finny was hurt because Gene’s truth had been told to him by strangers instead of by Gene himself—if he had wanted, Gene could have told Finny about the truth from earlier on. However, I also believe that Gene was not 100% responsible for Finny’s death. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I would hold the other boys such as Brinker the most responsible for Finny’s condition because they had been oblivious to the fact that the two boys had moved on from that painstaking incident, but they still wanted to reopen their wounds for their personal enjoyment. Like you, I was also confused about Finny’s actions towards Gene’s confession. When Gene had tried to confess earlier in the story right after the first incident, Finny had dismissed the thought of his friend acting against him because he had trusted him.

If in our first book, The Chief had realized that by fooling the rest of the ward, we was wrong, then I think that the target of the Head Nurse’s anger may have shifted from Murphy to Bromden. The Head Nurse may have been humiliated for being convinced that Bromden was a liar because he had been able to trick them all into think that he was deaf and mute. It still puzzles me how the Chief had been able to trick the ward. One would think that since it is a medical facility, there would have been tests to find the patient’s real condition. To me, if a metal ward was not able to distinguish the factual evidence from reality, I would feel that they are slacking. Lauren, how would you feel if you were deceived by someone who worked with you?

Since this is our comparison post, I noticed that between the two books, the character developments of the main characters are very similar. I feel that in both cases, the main character was a sort of narrator who told the story of a friend or another peer through their perspective. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest Bromden was a bystander where the actual action was happening by McMurphy and the nurse, and in our most recent reading, Finny was the one who had to endure all of the pain.  I also noticed that the roles of both Finny and McMurphy had been alike—they both had some sort of potent personality. In the first book, McMurphy had gotten the rest of the ward to revolt against the powers of the Head Nurse and also to go on the dangerous outing. He had also been able to get the other patients to vote in favor of the schedule change so that the patients could watch baseball. In the second book, I feel that Finny’s personality allows him to get away with things because of the way he interacted with officials. For example, Finny was able to get other boys in the school to begin their personal training exercise by jumping off the tree. All-in-all, I think that these two boys were officially the type of people with a very strong leadership ability. Lauren, do you know of anyone like these characters in real life?

The strongest connection I found in terms of character development was between the Chief himself and Gene. They both somehow killed another important character in their individual story. In the first story, the chief and literally killed McMurphy by suffocating him in his sleep, while in the second book, Gene had killed Finny through shock. I understand that calling Gene a murder is an accusation, but his friend’s death was deeply connected to the way that Gene had acted around him. Personally, I would not have been able to live a day without the guilt of murder if I were in the place of these two characters. How would you feel if you were responsible for the death of a peer?

Although the characters were also very different (the most obvious differences between both pairs Gene and Bromden; and Finny and McMurphy, is that two of them were boys in high school and the other two were men in mental wards) they are also very similar to the way that they are portrayed in their stories. The similarities between both pairs of characters are so astonishing because we had picked these books with no knowledge of the story line.

Lauren Crom Post 4 A Separate Peace

My heart stopped when I read this quote in the last section of A Separate Peace:  “This touched an interesting point Phineas had been turning over in his mind for a long time.  I could tell that because the obstinate, competitive look left his face as his mind became engaged for the first time.  ‘It’s very funny,’ he said ‘but ever since then I’ve had a feeling that the tree did it by itself.  “It’s an impression I’ve had.  Almost as though the tree shook me out by itself’” (Knowles, 169).  The reason that this struck a chord with me was because this isn’t the truth.  And Phineas was told the truth earlier on in the story, yet he continues to deny it.  Though Brinker continues to prod and dig further in order to find the reason behind the mystery of Phineas’ fall, I still don’t understand exactly why people continue to do so.  I understand that this was possibly the largest tragedy at the Devon School, but at the time Phineas wasn’t dead.   

I also didn’t get this quote said on page 176 where Brinker compares both Phineas and Gene to an engine:  “But it has two pistons.  What is that engine?  Well anyway, in this engine first one piston sinks, and then the next one sinks.  The one holding on to the trunk for a second, up and down like a piston, and then the other one sank and fell.” I don’t quite understand this analogy because an engine works with more than two pistons.  While one piston is receding the other is ascending.  I don’t get why Brinker used this analogy because he already suspected Gene of committing this crime… And the fact that only one person jumped makes this analogy totally unreasonable. 

Till the end of the book, I continued to not understand the relationship between Phineas and Gene.  Yes, I feel as though Phineas admired Gene beyond the point that I would have admired him.  However, Gene’s standpoint and opinion of Finny seems to be as decisive as a sine curve—very indecisive.  Prior to Gene’s visit to Finny in the hospital (the second time), Gene was looking forward to seeing his old friend—especially witnessing him talk in Latin to the doctors and nurses tending to him.  It was mentioned in the book repeatedly that it “made him laugh” the fact that Finny did this just to annoy several people.  However with the turn of the page Phineas hated the very sight and sound of his childhood pal Gene.  He supposedly thrashed about in his hospital bed (keep in mind Phineas has several broken bones along with his leg tied up in a cast resting above his head).  This action alone displays how much hate is held towards Gene.  But I didn’t happen to catch when in the story Gene’s confession was truly believed and processed by Finny. 

I also don’t fully understand why this second incident was Gene’s fault.  It wasn’t.  I feel as though the blame for this most recent occurrence should be placed upon Brinker and Leper because they were the ones whose arguing drove Finny off the wall and down the marble stairs.  Knowing this, why does Gene think:  “I couldn’t escape a confusing sense of having lived through all of this before—Phineas in the Infirmary, and myself responsible” (Knowles, 187).  Hiren, if someone in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest suddenly realized that they had done something extremely wrong (beside MacArthur), then how do you think that book would have played out?  

Another quote that caught my attention was on page 187:  “But I could not hear, and that as because I did not exist.”

Hiren Ajudia Post 4 A Seperate Peace

Chapters 11-13
Thanks for appreciating my perspective on the title. I think that that statement is relevant to the book because Finny convinced this classmates to forget the war that was taking place around them and instead he got them to have a little of fun. While the rest of the nation was busy training and stressing for the war, Finny got the boys to ignore the urgency of the event. In real life, I think that this characteristic of Finny’s would make him an excellent therapist. I think this way because he has the ability to get people to look at serious situations with a childish perspective. In terms of the clothes enhancement, I think that at that moment in the book, Gene felt superior to Finny, and his clothes were the only representation of him—Gene finally mustered gained the popularity and “strength” that Finny always possessed by posing as Finny. If the two boys were actually really good friends, I think that this situation in the book would have been pointless—two boys sharing their clothes with each other. Just like the previous book that you connected this one too, I have not read Catch 22, but I do know that just like A Separate Peace, it is also popular.

I think that you were right have a sense of worry for Leper. In this section of the book, Finny himself realizes how enlisting in the war was no joke like he believed it to be. When Finny finally came to realization that he was wrong about the war this entire time, I felt that deep-down he must have been very embarrassed for his truth to be revealed. I know that if I said something with a lot of confidence and it was proved to be incorrect, I would be really ashamed of my arrogance and in turn, I would not have been able to look my peers in the eye. I feel that it was Finny’s strength to realize and accept his mistake. “If a war can drive anyone crazy, then it’s real all right” (page 146). Reading this section, I still pitied Finny because he was under the influence and he was ready to believe anything and everything that Gene told him. “Of course I believed you” (page 147). Getting into the relation of the two boys, I think that as much as Gene had been regretting his actions towards Finny, the right thing to have done would have been to step up and take responsibility towards his actions. I wish that Gene did not use Finny’s innocence and instead would have told him the truth about the tree incident in the beginning of the book.

I think that Brinker had conducted the meeting about Finny’s past with the best of intentions. “everything about Finny’s accident was cleared up and forgotten.”  However, I think that this quote is ironic because Brinker should have known that the past was already forgotten—neither Finny nor Gene were bringing up the topic until he decided to be nosey and take matters into his own hands. The result of this meeting was not in the least bit positive for Finny because he realized how Gene played a major role for his condition. For Finny, it must have been very difficult to relive his life’s horrible memoires by narrating them to his peers. For a friend, the realization of Gene’s hand in Finny’s condition must have been heartbreaking. Finny must have begun to hate Gene for not showing him his true colors. This incident must have also stirred up a lot of remorse for Gene. When Finny was hospitalized and Gene came to visit him, I think that the roles of the two characters were revered. Gene had been the aggressive one while Finny had been the caring one, but in the hospital, it was evident that Finny was furious at Gene for betraying him, and as a result. In a way, this reminds me of the stereotype “two-faced.” Different situations can obviously cause people to react in a different way.

In the end, I feel that while the rest of the world was fighting a outside enemy, Gene had actually been fighting his own feelings. It had been his personal feelings and reactions of fury which had caused him to be hostile to Finny. The death of Finny represents a loss that Gene got over himself because he had not won against his own feelings, but instead he let his feelings take the best of him.

As the book wraps up, I have a few unanswered questions, and I was hoping that you may have a clue. One thing that I was really curious about was why Gene had returned to his school. I mean to dig up his past was really brave considering his emotional growth. Also, I wanted to make a prediction about Gene’s future: I believe that his past will always have a major impact on the way that he looks upon his actions because he had already experienced the aftermath of when his emotions control him. What do you think Lauren?

Lauren Crom Post 3 A Separate Peace

Hiren, you struck my attention with one of the quotes in your last post:  “Nothing is as peaceful as the youth of a few carefree boys.”  This was a fantastic assessment and summary of A Separate Peace. 

I was especially surprised—like you—at the exchange of clothes and that whole situation.  It alarmed me at how two friends—previously the best of friends and inseparable—could turn out to despise each other.  When Gene was changing out of his clothes, all Finny could do was criticize and comment.  However, his comments were not by any means encouraging, optimistic, or upbeat.   “We went into the gym, along a marble hallway, and to my surprise we went on past the Trophy Room, where his make was already inscribed on one cup, one banner, and one embalmed football.  I was sure that this was his goal, to mill over these lost trophies” (Knowles, 109).  Why would a “friend” do this to another friend? 

Another major turning point—as Hiren mentioned—in A Separate Peace was the moment when Gene was pondering the idea of going into the military post finishing high school at Devon.  “And I have never forgotten that dazed look on Finny’s face when he thought that on the first day of his return to Devon I was going to desert him” (Knowles, 109).  In my opinion this was a major turning point because for once in Finny’s life he had the lower hand.  For once it was Finny who was scared by someone else’s actions.  For once Finny had to fear for his social life, his athletic life and his encouragement.  Without Gene to re-introduce Finny into the scene, who was he to become?  

In a way, A Separate Peace reminds me of Catch 22 by Joseph Heller.   1942:  a year where warfare is very much present and the atmosphere of a major conflict sticks close to the ground in the United States.   Catch 22 is by far the most bizarre and thrilling book I have ever read.  It makes no sense—yet it makes sense.  That is the “catch” to Catch 22.  The people who want to fight in the war knowing that if they fight they will be decommissioned eventually—although guaranteed to die before they are discharged—are considered the sane ones.  The crazy people are those who wish to leave the service early, knowing that if they don’t leave they will end up dead.   So everything that is said in the book is contradictory.  Every sentence in Catch 22 should be read four or five times because it doesn’t match the sentence leading up to it.  In A Separate Peace, whenever wartime is brought up, people question:  “is there really a war?  Is a war really going on?  Is it?”  I wonder if this is because the people in A Separate Peace are so isolated from the rest of the world that they have no conceptualization or reconciliation of what life is like outside the Devon School. 

I worry about Leper.  During the times of the war, if someone escaped without a discharge from the military and was then found, that was an automatic death and a shot in the head.   This is why he had to be so secretive—because Leper knew about the consequences.  Is it worth it?    

Hiren Ajudia Post 3 A Separate Peace

Chapters 8-10
Lauren, the movie that you compared this book to is unfamiliar with me. I have not seen that movie; however, from your description, I can infer that the movie is similar to the book in the way that a character tries to replace a rival by trying to copy every action. Your comment on how Gene felt like he was a bigger part of Finny after trying on his clothes gave me a new perspective in relation to the situation. At first, I thought that Gene had caused harm on Finny out of hatred, but he could have also pushed his friend from the tree limb because he acted in the spur of the moment. It could have been that Gene had been meaning to tell Finny how he felt in different ways about their rivalry, but it only came out in this way. I am sure that the exchanging of his friend’s clothes had such a dramatic effect on him because that may have caused him to face reality. The incident could have acted as a reality check for Gene because he realized how his action was so dramatic. It might have made him think in a way such as “What the heck did I just do?”  Just like you mentioned, the previous section does show how guilty Gene felt thanks to his feelings towards Finny, but that feeling is shown much more in the most recent reading section. For example, when Finny returns after his healing period, the two friends are put face-to-face.

When both Finny and Gene meet again after Finny’s recovery, I think that the two boys handle the situation very well in the fact that they both try to get over the past. It seems that Finny has less of a perspective change on Gene because he behaves normally with Gene. I got the impression that Finny was anticipating Gene to do nothing without him. If I were Finny, I would have felt very hurt because unlike him, Gene had moved on and had become friends with Brinker. “I had never seen such a look in them before. After looking at me closely he said, “You’re going to enlist?” (page 93). This quote shows that Gene had not been a good friend to Finny. I say this because if he were truly thinking about his friend, he would have never decided to do something that would not have involved him. In the real world, best friends are dying to do everything together, and if for some reason one friend can’t do something, the other friend decides not to do that particular thing either, however this is not the case in the book. Gene should have given it a thought because enlisting in the war meant a lot or responsibility. Also, Finny would not have been able to do that because of his current handicapped situation.

In a way, this section also reveals how demanding Finny himself is. For one, the boy’s roaming session around the school reveals how Finny demands that Gene return his feelings towards him by also loving him. “What I mean is, I love winter, and when you really love something, and then it loves you back, in whatever way it has to love” (page 96). I feel that this is the first time that Finny acknowledges the fact that he is aware of the hatred shown by Gene towards him. In terms of their relationship, I feel that this quote implies how Finny knew along that Gene had deliberately pushed him of the branch and he was willing to forget the entire incident if only Gene would return the feelings that Finny has towards him by also loving him. Also, the repeated statement about there not being a war shows how Finny likes the world to revolve around himself. By convincing the people around him that there was no war taking place but the entire incident was rather made up by fat men, Finny is trying to involve himself in the activities that the people around him were a part of. For instance, he convinced everyone that there was no war because he could not be a part of it because of his physical characteristics. I would like to mention that I thought that it was very brave of Finny to face the truth and accept the fact that his closest friend had been responsible for his deficiency. On Gene’s part, I am sure that it must have been very awkward when Finny began to train Gene to complete his unfulfilled dream of competing in the Olympics.  If I was betrayed by a friend just as Finny had been, I also would have focused on shifting the attention of my previous friends from something that I was not a part of to something that involved everyone at hand. What about you Lauren? How would you react if you had found out that a close friend had gone behind your back to bring you down? In the long run, I think that it would be safe to say that Finny’s attempts to ignore the current war had been a failure. I say this because the positive atmosphere had been broken by the letter from Leper about the current war. This section of the reading provides insights to the title of the book. When Gene plays along with Finny's far streched idea of the reality of the war, Gene is comforted for a bit during his training. Nothing is as peaceful as the youth of a few carefree boys.

I would have to say that if I were Gene, I would not have been able to set off on an expedition to Vermont all by myself. I think that this was a rather dangerous decision on his part. Since Gene was alone through his journey of finding Leper, anything could have happened to him. He could have gotten lost in the city because he did not know his way around the area. So far Lauren, I would have to agree with you that this book has been a great read. In response to your prediction, I feel the same way towards the future of the book. Your prediction seems reasonable because if we were to consider Gene’s behavior, he had attempted to kill Finny once already, and I think that he has the potential to attempt this again. If Finny were killed rather than injured, I feel that the most Gene would have to face the most. After he first trial, he was given opportunities for forgiveness, but if Finny were killed, there would have been no more opportunities for Gene to seek forgiveness for his dramatic actions.

Lauren Crom Post 2 A Separate Peace

We continue to learn more and more about the secret hate that Gene Forrester has for his presumed best friend, whom he affectionately calls “Finny.”  In the last section of the reading, Gene illustrates that he does have a secret hatred towards Finny, because Finny is everything that Gene is not.  Though Gene is an almost straight-A student (mentioned in Chapter 4) and Finny can “hardly break a C”, Finny has athletic capability like no other.  One quote that I found particularly amusing in Chapter 4 was Finny addressing Gene: “If I had a brain like that, I’d—I’d have my brain cut open so people could look at it” (page 58).  Using the tree as an analogy, Finny is the one who can jump the farthest and reach the deeper water.  In a way, this competition keeps Gene on his toes.  However this opposition also drives the hatred that Gene holds for Finny so deep that he would go out of his way to hurt him.  Destroying Gene would be the only obstacle that Gene had to clear in order to make himself the best boy at the Devon School.  His competition would be nonexistent—his type would be a monopoly.   Like Hiren mentioned in his last post, Gene needed Finny for the protective shadow he cast upon him, and Finny needed Gene as someone to listen, teach, love and learn with.  But perhaps the worst thing out of this whole mess that Gene created was the fact that Gene no longer had anyone to compete with. 

This section of the reading also introduces regret.  Regret is defined as: to feel sad, repentant, or disappointed over (something that has happened or been done, esp. a loss or missed opportunity): she immediately regretted her words.  Gene must have felt absolutely terrible because of the incident.  Not only because it was he who shook the branch that nearly killed (and even worse; destroyed Finny’s life) but it was Gene who almost opted out of jumping that night.  I wonder what almost prevented Gene from going to his Suicide group that night.  It was possible this comment that he was thinking before the accident:  “Any fear I had ever had of the tree was nothing beside this.  It wasn’t my neck, but my understanding, which was menaced.  He had never been jealous of me for a second.  Now I knew that there never was and never could have been any rivalry between us.  I was not the same quality as he” (Chapter 4). 

In a way it surprised me that Gene Forrester would intentionally do this to his friend.  I didn’t expect this menacing act—no matter how much Finny was hated by Gene. 

Another element of A Separate Peace that surprised me was when Gene tried on Finny’s clothes.   I wondered if he preformed this act to see how much he was becoming a Finny—reckless yet daring, extreme yet sincere, and a winner at heart.  When he tried on a particularly strapping shirt of Finny’s, he saw something else:  “it was no aristocrat I had become, no character out of daydreams” (Chapter 5).  Gene was so shocked when he tried on his lost companions clothes that he didn’t even recede to dinner that evening.  What a profound impact—clothes so closely resemble a person, but does not identify one.  

Overall I love the book and the depth within it.  In a way it reminds me of the movie GATTACA because Gene (no pun intended!) is trying so hard to be someone that he is destined not to be.  Destiny did not want Gene to be as physically and emotionally resilient as it had meant for Finny.   I can’t wait to read on… I predict that Finny dies.  Evil is only as evil as the consequences.  Hiren, if Finny did die (and maybe he does in this next section) would the consequences be greater than if he were to be crippled for the remainder of his life?  Would the consequences be greater upon Gene?  

Hiren Ajudia Post 2 A Separate Peace

Chapters 4-7
Lauren, when I first read your explanation for the first quote, I thought that your description implied that the main character was in war fighting for fifteen years, and that is what caused him to be away from his town. However, this would be impossible because World War II only lasted for four years. Like you, I thought that the main character was going to be lonely, but luckily he had a friend. Just like I mentioned in my first post, I think that the stairs symbolize Gene’s experience and memories at his school. You mentioned that Gene may be an OCD character, and I think that he may be an OCD person because one of the symptoms of this disorder is to have repeated thoughts and sensations, and after reading this section I totally agree. Throughout the beginning of this chapter, Gene continuously has negative thoughts towards his friend Finny.

            Just like I was leading into, the relationship between the two boys is portrayed in a different way than it was described in the section prior. Based on Gene’s character development, I can totally sense that his envious feelings towards his friend are more serious in this section then it was before. For example, Gene thinks that his friend is trying to distract him from studying so that the two can be at an equal status whereas; the two are at different positions currently. Finny was behind from Gene because he was not as good of a student academically as Gene was athletically. “We were even after all, even in enmity. The deadly rivalry was on both sides after all” (page 43). After reading this section, I was really mad at Gene for thinking this lowly of his best friend. It is apparent that Gene wanted high popularity in his school. “Anyways,’ I [Gene] grudgingly added, ‘somebody’s got to be the head of the class’” (page 41). This quote reminds me of the saying “I did not ask to be princess, but if the crown fits…..” because it Gene is trying to persuade his friend that he does not have the burning desire to be in charge, but if the school community really needs him to rule he will. The thing that  really makes me mad about the relationship between Gene and Finny is that Gene thinks that Finny is trying to bring him down. This is obviously a false statement, because if it were true, Finny would always try to distract Gene from studying instead of motivating him to continue studying. “Why didn’t you say you had to study before? Don’t move from that desk. It’s going to be all A’s for you” (page 48).  Lauren, how would you react to envious feelings towards friends?

            On one side, Gene is a terrible friend while Finny is a naïve one. I am really surprised how Finny acted like Gene was innocent when he was trying to convince him that he was responsible for his condition. I think that this is a very commendable example of friendship. This example shows that just because one person sees their friend as an enemy instead, that does not mean that this should become a mutual mind set for the relationship. I feel that by inflicting harm on Finny just because he was competition was a very cowardly act for Gene. If I was in the shows of Gene, I would not have the guts to push someone off of a tree no matter how much I hated that person. And as a result, if I were Finny, I would never be able to forgive the person that willingly hurt me. I thought that it was such an emotional moment when Finny asked Gene to play sports for him because he was asking the person responsible for his condition to “continue his plan” of gaining more and more popularity in the school by participating in everything that he possibly could. I am really curious as to know what and how you would react if you were betrayed by a dear friend.

            As the story progresses, I could feel the remorse that Gene felt whenever he encountered his crippled friend Finny. I know that Finny’s absence from school is not good for his academic life, but I think that it also has an effect on Gene’s behavior in school. I say this because the journey described prior to Finny’s injury never mentioned if Gene was ever bullied. I think that in a way, Gene used Finny as a shield to guard him from bullies at school because after he left, the school found Gene as a weak person and began to bully him. For example, Gene has a conflict when he becomes the crew’s assistant manager. In the very least, I feel as if he descerves that after hurting Finny.

           

Lauren Crom Post 1 A Separate Peace

Compared to One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, I find A Separate Peace a work of literary art!  There were several quotes that impressed me: 

“Looking back now across fifteen years, I could see with great clarity the fear I had lived in, which must mean that in the interval I had succeeded in a very important undertaking: I must have made my escape from it” (2). 

The fifteen mentioned in the quote above were the years that Gene Forrester had been absent from his town—specifically the Devon School in New Hampshire.  When I stumbled across this quote, I immediately thought that he was a troubled child, or wanted to escape from his anxieties, which he seemed to leave in the dust when he left New Hampshire.  We later learn that fifteen years ago was the time of World War Two.  Obviously there is much trouble within Gene Forrester.  Staring at the steps… What do you think is symbolic about that?  What do you think this holds for an OCD character such as Gene Forrester?

Another quote that I found intriguing was: 

“We had been idiosyncratic, leaderless band in the summer, undirected except by the eccentric notions of Phineas. Now the official class leasers and politicians could be seen taking charge, assuming as a matter of course their control of these walks and fields which had belonged only to us” (66).

Gene seems to be the type of person to stumble upon his past.  He seems to be a deep and intellectual thinker, and one who will criticize every blade of grass on the prettiest and most perfect lawn.  He appears to be stuck and hoping that taking a sojourn to his old school will close some of his insecurities and make him a better person.  I can’t wait for this story to progress—or regress. 

Another thing that I am really impressed with in A Separate Peace is the writing style.  The writing is beautiful, and if flows so well.  The above quote is a superb example of how the English language can be manipulated.  This is just one sample of many of the beautiful parts of A Separate Peace.  I can’t wait to continue reading!

Hiren Ajudia Post 1 A Separate Peace

Chapters 1-3
From reading this book, I can tell that it is from the past. Because the book takes place during World War II, I know that there will be many differences between the world of Gene and the current world. I can really connect with the way that the protagonist sees his school fifteen years after attending it. The school was probably associated with many of the main character’s memories as a young boy. When the main character began to describe the different places in his school, I think that he was describing them as he remembered as a young boy. When he was describing the staircase, I sensed that while he was there, he may have looked upon the staircase with fear. “They were the same as ever. And I? Well, I naturally felt older—I began at that point the emotional examination to note how far the convalescence had gone—I was taller, bigger generally in relation to these stairs”(page 3). After reading this section of the book, the saying relating to the lives of spiders immediately came to my mind. Children are often afraid of things like spiders, and as a result their parents tell them how the spider had much more to fear from the human due to its size. Reading this description made me infer that as a child, Gene may have been afraid of the height of the stairs, or something dramatic could have happened to him on the stairs. It is clear that Gene himself feels ashamed of his fear considering his status that was with him—there was nothing to be afraid of from the staircase. When he started to describe the tree, I got the same sense of fear just like I picked up from the stair incident.

When Gene began to talk about the part, I predicted that he was going to talk about how lonely and isolated he was from the rest of the school community based on the prior description about the tree, but I was rather surprised when he began to talk about his best friend Finny. I felt that when Gene was explaining his relationship with his friend, he tried to sound modest, and as a result he tried to portray his relationship as a very normal friend circle type of deal. I thought that the relationship between Finny and Gene was really strong because both boys seemed to be extremely comfortable around each other. Also, Gene looked up to Finny in matters like his ability to get away with anything.  Also, Gene noticed how Finny walked differently from the other kids.

I was really disappointed in Gene when he did not truly express his feelings towards Finny at the end of chapter 3. Finny had told Gene how he saw him as a friend, and if Gene had returned the gesture, then the two boys could have established an even greater bond of trust. I believe that Gene takes into consideration what people around him think of him more than his own confidence in himself, and that is what freighted him and forced him to keep his feelings within himself. I feel that if Gene had told Finny how important he was to him then the story might take a positive turn. I was also disappointed in how Gene listened to everything that Finny told him to do. For example, Finny told Gene to jump of the tree and Gene had done just that although he knew that it was a dangerous task. This shows that Gene did not really have the ability to make decisions on his own, and as a result he relied on others to decide things for him.

This book is based on the war period in Europe, and I wonder what gave John Knowles the inspiration to write a book like this. Perhaps, the author himself was telling his own story through the eyes of the main character Gene. I am also really curious to find our why the main character was at his old school after so much time had passed from his actual attendance.  The title choice also amazed me because I got the impression that the main character was at peace in situations that were unnatural and unique after reading the first three chapters.

What are your opinions of the book so far Lauren? I hope that this book has some type of positive ending for the main character, Gene.

Hiren Ajudia Post 4 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Pages 249-311
Lauren, it was clear that you did not like this book at all based on the way that you incorporated sarcasm and negative vocabulary. I thought that the highlight of your post was that you thought that this book was very unoriginal in the message: which was dedication to goals. I agree that this may have been one of the messages of this book, but I also think that another message could have been patience and flexibility. I say this could have been a potential message because the story had very unusual characters; each one had their individual story. I think that this book serves as an example of how one should be open to the personalities of everyone around them. This theme reminds me of the concept of acceptance: If the fingers of your hands are not the same, how can you expect other people in the world to have the same feelings.

            Just like you, I was a bit disappointed in the overall plot because it was not something that particularly interests me. However, I think that the writing style was very good. I say this because in certain situations, explaining things to another person is difficult especially when the opposite person does not understand at all. I think that the author did a decent job because even though the story was written from the perspective of a mentally unstable person, it was not extremely difficult to understand. Also, in the reading, I noticed many metaphors and similes in context. For example, when McMurphy first joined the ward, the other patients described their condition as rabbits. Also, in the last section, the nurse describes McMurphy as a fox: “Crazy like a fox”(page 251).

            Just like you mentioned, I also believe that the theme of this section was power and control. Not only does the head nurse execute her power, but I think that McMurphy proves his popularity and authority in the ward when he organizes his party. Throughout this entire reading, I noticed a major difference between McMurphy and the head nurse, and it is the fact that the head nurse always tried to get the patients to go against each other-first with the a daily journal, and also with her plans. McMurhpy, however seemed to me that he was trying to get the ward to unite. In my opinion, I think that McMurphy did everything with the best of intentions. I also believe that if a group of people are going to live together, they might as well be good friends, or at least good “neighbors.” The condition of McMurphy was very tragic. The entire time, he was super powerful, and seeing him action less like the “vegetables” was very hard to accept for me. I wonder why he did not reveal the secret of Bromden when he had the chance before the treatments as a way to cause more harm for Bromden.

            I was actually really disappointed by the fact that the nurse had not learned from her past. There have been many examples before that showed that unity is more important in a group than the power of an individual. If I were in her place, it would have been very difficult for me to make the lives of others very hard by adding hardships to each step of their life. I did not really like the way the head nurse was portrayed. I think that a head nurse with more of an open personality may have been able to run the ward more affectively. If she was friendlier, then the other patients might not have been as afraid.

            I was really surprised at the fact that Bromden decided to kill McMurphy and then flea. I totally did not see that coming, and as a result I was very shocked to see him pull of a drastic move. Maybe it was true that McMurphy had an influence on Bromden, because throughout the entire book, I saw his character as a very kind and caring person. I thought that Bromden thought of everyone. The action of him pretending to be deaf and dumb was not very appealing to me either. I think that his true self should have been exposed. The condition of Bromden makes me think of the lack of technology during this period. One would think that before a person was sent to mental hospital, the officials would be aware of the conditions of their patients. Either through tests were not conducted when Bromden was admitted, or he was a great actor. I wonder if Bromden would continue this act in the future.

            As this book ends, I am looking forward to reading the next book. I hope that it is a bit more interesting than this one had been.

           

Lauren Crom Post 4 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

I cannot emphasize to whoever reads this post exactly how glad I am to finish this book.  It was long, and it was extremely depressing to read!  There is NOTHING in this book that would make me recommend this.  Other than if you rebel against the higher power, the head honcho might just die before his efforts really begin to pay off. 

McMurphey throws a party and excites all of the crazies in the Cuckoo’s Nest.  After the party that was thrown, the people realize that they can reach their full potential and thrive in the real world.  However, how long his idea stuck with them is a question.  They realize that they can do anything if they put their minds to it… Just as the theme to every other book ever written in the past 2012 years illustrates. 

The nurse was furious.  This act alone proved that she is the over-controlling, crazy that the room she came back to was disheveled.  She knew that Mr. McMurphey was behind the whole thing.  There were decorations, which showed that there was an outside influence upon these crazies.  One thing that drove the Nurse especially crazy was the fact that Mr. Martini (a psychotic that everyone knows is vulnerable and is easily ashamed of his life and what he hasn’t accomplished) had grab hold of her hat.  He was found in the nurse’s office and brought to an even lower level in the mean and condescending eyes of the nurse.  What he needs is encouragement.  Not a reason to rebel. 

After the party was thrown and Billy had an interesting night, he stopped stuttering as much as he usually did.  He wasn’t scared of anything.  There was nothing he was ashamed of in that night.  This is because he had an enjoyable night—one where he lost himself and one where he didn’t have to worry about Ms. Ratchet beating up on him and criticizing his every move.  But after a wonderful night and an insight into a future life, Billy decided to commit suicide.  McMurphey’s plan fell apart at that moment.  The stress became too great and he took all of his inner anger out on the Nurse.  I am not sure how much a person can hold.  He obviously isn’t crazy, and he is being held in a place where crazy is the norm and he is expected to do such things. 

The readers of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest can be assured that there was indeed a happy ending.  McMurphey dies, and Chief Bromden lifts the “well” that spews water in the beginning of the book.  This is the biggest moment in the book, and possibly for these people’s lives.  Which is sad.  It’s just a well.  And the Chief is strong, he should have lifted it a while ago. 

However it is not the momentous period of time in my life. I will never read this book again yet alone recommend it to anyone that wishes to enjoy themselves and learn something about life. 

Hiren, was this not the worst book you ever read??? 

Hiren Ajudia Post 3 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Pages 150-245         
Lauren, I totally agree with your opinions about the head nurse. It is clear in this section that she shows that she is oblivious to the rebellious acts behind her back. I felt that her confidence in her authority allowed her to overlook the actions of the patients as motivation to stay strong. For example, you brought up the portion of the book were she stares at the piece of cardboard in place of the window. To me, this example is similar to the methods of non-violence that Gandhi had accepted in our current class reading book. I feel that this action of the nurse made it clear to the patients that her confidence would not be brought down as easily as they thought it would. In the current reading, Gandhi influences the Indian society to endure the actions of violence that the British took against them, and in return they should stay non-violent. The head nurse does not let anyone know of how affected she is by that action.

You mentioned that this section of the book is focused around the theme of hatred, and I agree-keeping in mind the examples such as the gas station incident. However, I believe that this section also touches on sexuality. This concept is brought up a couple of times in the section. For example, McMurphy takes interest in the size of the head nurse’s breasts. “…frustrating the whole staff, even going so far as to step up to the Big Nurse in the hall one time and ask her, if she didn’t mind tellin’, just what was the actual inch-by-inch measurement on them great big ol’ breasts that she did her best to conceal but never could” (page 150). Also, while taking to Bromden, McMurphy noticed his erection when he brought up the topic of prostitutes. The last example of sexuality in this section would probably be the chaperones that McMurphy had arranged for the boating trip. I was really surprised as to how he had managed to arrange all of this in a mental hospital.

In this section, I noticed a rise and fall in the actions of McMurphy. At first, he had gone out of his way to cause trouble with the head nurse, but after talking with the lifeguard about his treatment, I noticed that he had tried to get on the nurse’s good side so that he could be let out from the hospital on time. This was a very confusing action, and that is because when he first came to the hospital, I remember him loving it a lot more that he had loved his old life. During this silent period of his, his influence was more evident on the other patients. He had started the rebellion process. I think this because when he was going through his silent phase, Cheswick had spoken against the head nurse’s rules on the cigarettes. This seemed very random because it seemed that McMurphy was the leader of the patients, but he really was not. I remember commenting that I felt that he had come to the hospital with the thought of changing the way the hospital ran, and I saw that vision coming to life in this section.

I was really surprised that Bromden talked to McMurphy. Personally, I would not have done this. I think that in order to blow your cover, it is important to trust the people to whom you show your true face too. Although McMurphy had guessed about his condition, I would have been in denial mode. I think that McMurphy has a very open-mind, and I also think that he as a big mouth. All of the sympathy earned by Bromden could have been destroyed if he had told anyone. While reading the conversation between Bromden and McMurphy, I was wondering if anyone had heard the two talking. I know that the other patients must have been heavily medicated, but someone could have been a light sleeper just as Bromden had been, and he could have learned the truth about Bromden. As the story continues, I hope that the truth about Bromden is revealed, but in a way that does not cause any damage to the hospital.

Lauren Crom Post 3 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

This book is possibly the worst book that I have ever read.  I feel as though there is no plot in it whatsoever—and the only several “major” things ever happens; including the Nurse’s flip-outs and violent rampages.  Another major point in the book is the suspicion of Chief Bromden and that he is not actually deaf.  This could put a big twist on the story because the Nurse and everyone else is used to making fun of him right in front of his eyes, without even a second thought.  The Nurse is used to advertising everyone’s problems right in front of Chief Bromden, so if she finds out that he is capable of hearing and has heard almost every word she speaks about the place she despises yet works at, Chief Bromden could be in huge trouble! 

The nurse is the scariest character that I have ever read in a book.  She dominates over everything in a time when women didn’t have such power.  I find it interesting that the windowpane continually being broken and destroyed by the patients (for three times is was broken and then ordered to be repaired by the nurse).  At one point she replaces it with a piece of cardboard and continually stares at it, as if she could see through the pane of cardboard and watch over her insane patients.  This is her ultimate test—no one would ever defy her.  No one would dare of smashing her window.  No one would dare do anything that might set this beast of women off.  No one would dare do anything that might make his or her stay in the physic ward longer than the minimal sentence.  

Another aspect that I found interesting about this section of the book was the fact that Dr. Spivey let several patients out for a fishing trip.  Maybe the doctor is insane letting his insane patients out on a trip by themselves.  This is just a crazy idea that could lead these patients into a maze of trouble that doesn’t even have a solution.  The nurse is sneakier than ever in this scene—posting clippings up on her bulletin board about boats that have crashed and people gone missing from these crashes.  Despite every effort to persuade the men in her hospital that they are terrible people, I believe that the nurse is giving subtle hints that life belongs to one person and one person only—the man whose heart is beating in it.  Although she is portrayed as the antagonist, I believe that she has some hope for these people who she tries so hard to act like she hates. 

I hate this book more than any other book that I have ever read because of its twisted plot, and lack thereof.  The characters focus around hate.  The hate in this book reappears and disappears like a sine function’s path on the y-axis.  However, it is unpredictable who is going to become the next victim in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.  

In response to Hiren's last post, I also noticed that the fog machine made Bromden go insane! I think that McMurphey casts a spell upon Bromden... We'll have to wait and see what effects this spell has upon him.  

Lauren Crom Post 2 One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

This book just gets weirder as the word count increases.  I want to research the author of this book some—because it appears that he takes these “mini themes” from his own life experiences. 

Kenneth Kesey is the author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.   He attended a very prominent school—Stanford University.  He studied in their writing program.  At Stanford he also participated as a test subject in the medical department to earn extra money.  This struck me with a thought—that Kenneth Kesey got some of his themes from the book there.  Maybe the reason Chief Bromden cannot talk is because he was the subject of a medical experiment himself.  This could also be the root reason for why Chief Bromden is working in a hospital, because that is where Kenneth Kesey had most of his horrifying experiences. 

The professional wrestler in Kenneth Kesey could have led to the character of the head nurse.   She portrays a mean, self-centered nurse who wants to take control of everyone in the mental hospital.  She works with weak people because she knows that those are the people whom she can easily control and manipulate.  I am expecting a decline in her character because during the time when Kenneth Kesey qualified as an Olympic wrestler, he became injured and was no longer able to compete.  Thus, the one of the many plots in the story could be to overtake this Olympic woman—to defeat her and overthrow her so she no longer lingers over the patients of the mental asylum. 

Since the chemicals that Stanford was testing on him included some of the most dangerous ones known to man today (including LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline), he was often delusional.   He was reported to have hallucinations of a man of Indian decent sweeping the floors.  Thus, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest was born.  Chief Bromden (Bromden because of the resemblance to “broom”) was brought to live through a writing project he was assigned at Stanford. 

He had a hard life.  Kesey often liked to throw parties.  These parties, people reported, were littered with experimental drugs such as the ones that were tested on him during his experience at Stanford.  He became part of a prank group, as well as a band.  Through this hard life, he was put in jail.  He went so far as to fake a suicide to try and escape.  For possessing marijuana after it had been illegalized, Kenneth Kesey was sentenced to five months in the San Mateo jail.  I wonder if Kesey believed that the hospital resembled some sort of a jail; a prison to those inside, and vice versa during his stay at Stanford. 

Overall, I believe that Kesey was one weird man.  I would not willingly experiment drugs just for the sake of things.  This is just crazy.  He ruined his life in a way—while at the same time creating a name for himself because without those loopy drugs he was willingly testing, he wouldn’t have come up with such an odd and unrealistic character as Chief Bromden, or the little lady nurse.